pc or appliance? what do you think?

Discussion in 'General' started by j99991, May 5, 2009.

  1. j99991

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2008
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    0
    hello

    i noticed that many people here build thier own elastix systems using pc. i also know that many companies sell elastix in an appliance.
    i would like to ask if any one could maybe tell from his experince or thoughs what's better.

    i know that appliances for example do not have cd roms so this could become a problem when creating a disk backup image of the system in order to restore it laster.

    on the other hand, pc might take more place and is bigger then an appliance.

    do you have any other pros or con to this?

    moreover, i would just like to know. since pc is acctually using more moving parts such as fans is it true that by using a pc which has moving parts and an appliance i'm acctually more exposed for problems?
    or acctually could it be that pc will tend to break or damaged before an appliance does?
    or it will have a lower lifetime then an appliance?

    i now from regular pcs that they tend to have problem or to make noises or to stop working because of the fans or dust that has stuck there. should that take in account while trying to think which is better appliance or a pc?

    it's very important for me that the system will have it's maximum uptime.

    thanks
    j99991
     
  2. dicko

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2008
    Messages:
    4,099
    Likes Received:
    0
    j99991:

    I think that in the nearly sixth months you have been posting here, you have apparently learnt almost nothing.
    I believe that if you had spent spent that time "passively" reading about asterisk/freepbx/Elastix on the forums and other (http://www.google.com) you would not be still asking the same basic questions that are A) covered in "Elastix Without Tears" (which although you say you have read but I seriously doubt that you retained any of) and B ) supplemented here in these forums.

    For myself, I have no trouble answering questions and helping with problems if I can, I sometimes resent the sense of "entitlement" of some posters who flood these pages with the same old questions that are answered, often many times and in great detail, already and could have been resolved in minutes by the poster using the search function here (and elsewere)

    Please, please, please do your homework!!, THEN have a physical system of any description that you built, and THEN when you have a problem you can't resolve yourself, post here again. Otherwise you stand the risk of looking like an unprepared schoolboy.
     
  3. vloose

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2008
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm in the same boat with up time so I prefer the do it your self approach since I don't have great luck with quick response with vendors. I like the pre-configed box idea if I don't have the time to learn, but that puts me at the mercy of a vendor for repairs.

    By doing it my self I was able to build a backup system at a very minimal cost so if I have hardware failure I can be be back up in a short amount of time.

    Bottom line is you have to look at what is important to your business and sanity.
     
  4. j99991

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2008
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    0
    but i already have a pc which i'm think to use it just that i do not know which could be better a pc or an appliance. regarding elastix without tears i read it few months ago and i do not remember that there was a section regarding which is better pc or appliance.
    though that i will check again.

    moreover, i wasn't trying to have any specific determind answer of pc or appliance i only asked for opinions from people who have experienced those.

    i will check again. and if anyone could give his opinion that will be good.

    i will also try to google it dicko.

    thanks
    j99991
     
  5. j99991

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2008
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    0
    well i have been searching in elsatix without tears and there is no metntion for appliance or appliances. even one of these words are not mentioned there. i would just like to ask where in the elastix without tears you believe i could find it?

    thanks
     
  6. dicko

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2008
    Messages:
    4,099
    Likes Received:
    0
    pages 268 and 269, please READ it not search it.
    http://elastixconnection.com/downloads/ ... _tears.pdf

    (has anyone suggested that you get tested for ADD/ADHD? and I'm not trying to be rude here, just as one who has had some exposure to this condition)
    (My original post was not specific to your original post but more generally to you.)
     
  7. j99991

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2008
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    0
  8. j99991

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2008
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    0
    dicko i'm sry but there is no such page....
    i only have 257 pages in the elastix without tears.
     
  9. dicko

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2008
    Messages:
    4,099
    Likes Received:
    0
    Then with the greatest of respect, perhaps it is time to consult with your physician/counsellor, perhaps a reassessment of medication/therapy is timely, the condition is very responsive to time and discipline.
     
  10. j99991

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2008
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    0
    i saw the latest elastix without tears at pages 268-269 but i couldn't find any thing to do with appliances or pc.

    am i doing something wrong here?

    thanks
     
  11. j99991

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2008
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    0
  12. j99991

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2008
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    0
    thanks vloose and what do you think of using a pc i mean do you think or know that pc tend to have more failurs because it gets more dusts then an appliance ?

    moreover a pc uses fans which could make in case of a failure lots of noise right?
     
  13. vloose

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2008
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    0
    I haven't researched appliances, but those questions might be better suited for the manufactures of the appliance because I'm sure there are different designs available. In my case, I am perfectly happy with having a backup system ready to run in the case of a hardware failure because predicting hardware failure in my experience is like trying to predict a child's actions. Just when you think you know what they will do, disaster strikes. I prefer redundancy over a sales man's promise of good hardware.

    Just a word of advice if you are actually considering using Elastix, you are pissing off the wrong person. Dicko is the guy who can pull your butt out of the fire at 2am on these forums when you ask him real questions like he did for me.

    I understand you are trying to learn, but I think your questions and comments are hitting the non-productive point and maybe crossing some lines. Once again, just my opinion.
     
  14. j99991

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2008
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    0
    ok
    well just to make it sure i'm not angry at dicko vice versa dicko helped me alot really alot here i read all the links he give me to read and try to follow his answers and explinations as much as i can.
    i do not want to piss you dicko really i don't.
    i have been reading about asterisk, elastix, appliances,sugarcrm,vtiger, elastix without tears and much more before i came here. i'm just trying to ask what ever i can in order to avoid problems.

    my questions regarind pcs and appliance was because i heard from a salesperson that using a pc might be a prolbme because sometimes hardwards are not compatibale to the system or to other hardware that's what the companies told me. i just wanted to know if this is true cause as you said i do not know if to beleive them cause they want reall high high prices 4 digits plus percetages from the purchase each year. so at this point i just want to make sure i'm not doing a mistake by doing it alone.

    i just want to know what could last more time without problems or failurs, without the need to mess or to fix or to open the hardware. a pc or an appliance that's it.
    i also of course need to know that in case of a pc there wont be any competability problems.

    thanks
     
  15. security

    Joined:
    May 14, 2007
    Messages:
    299
    Likes Received:
    0
    bueno lo he montado en servidores homologados sin problemas.

    servidores hp modelos. 350 g5 y g6, 360 g5 y g6.
    serviores ibm X3200, X3400. X3500,.

    con sistemas redundantes... :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh:
     
  16. dicko

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2008
    Messages:
    4,099
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm not pissed at you, just a little frustrated, working with you is like trying to persuade a bull in a china shop to settle the ... down. As previously suggested, FIRST get a system going, THEN worry about the problems if there are any, chances are they will be just like anyone else's and very quickly resolvable by the resources here (within the limitations of your network). My advice to you is to spend your time and effusive energies actually doing something and not talking about the hows and whys of doing it, just put the g.d.'d Elastix cd in the "pop out cup-holder thing" on your spare pc and turn it on, answer the questions and see what happens . . . . It worked for everyone else still standing here!!

    p.s. If you listen to salesmen then I've gotta ask if you want to buy a bridge from me, it's in New York and going quite cheap! ?
     
  17. Bob

    Bob

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2007
    Messages:
    2,400
    Likes Received:
    1
    j99991,

    I can see the reason for the frustration from the other forum posters.

    Both Appliance and PC Based PBX's have their benefits and issues. A lot of this information can be gleaned from google.

    Appliances can be more suitable in areas of space, and in some cases they use solid state hard drives reducing the possibility of hard disk failure. Appliances can limit themselves to what expansion cards can be installed. PC Based PBX's have the advantage that they can have faster components installed due to the improved cooling capabilities. It is really going to come down to the environment that you are going to install into.

    We generally use PC based systems sepecifically built for our requirements. However, we select the type of case, the cooling capability, the hard drive type, the motherboard type, the power supply model, rating, and quietness, the RAID Capability, the number of drives etc. We have systems out there now that are 4 years old (since we stared supplying), and the number of failures of any of these systems - ZERO. Some are in computer rooms, some on a shelf with the rest of their servers, and a couple on the floor.

    If you go for the PC based system, then select the components. Most of the time it will not be much more than the packaged systems that many places sell. Either that, or select a good brand name, confirm all the parts and then ask a specific question on whether anyone is currently using that particular model on the forum before you buy.

    We have system builder (who knows their work very well), and we have taken the time to educate them on what we are trying to achieve. We have supplied them a copy of the Elastix disk, and regularly update them each time a new release comes out. When they are building our systems they test with a based Elastix install, but generally they only install the parts that we have signed off on. If they have to change a motherboard in the design, they test initially with the base disk. We then test the system with various cards and test the system on live lines. We then sign off as the revised specification. We even test when a case change is required with a thermometer in the case it run for 24 hours, and confirm that the cooling within the case is sufficient.

    In general, at this stage, any system that can run Centos 5.2-5.3 will run Elastix.

    You don't have to go to the same degree, we do as we supply many systems, and our name is partly based on the reliability of our systems.

    If this is all too hard, then I recommend the Elastix Appliance. It will definitely make your life easier, you are generally guaranteed that it will work for you.

    Now back to the frustration. There are no guarantees in life. Sometimes learning is going to come from mistakes. I know I have made many of them in the last 25 years or so. No one can tell you the machine you buy will be perfect for Elastix, even an appliance. The appliance might not be certified for use in your country, you may find that the card you want to use will not work in the appliance.

    Select ONE system, ask the question, find out what others say, confirm that you are not going to make a four figure mistake, and then go for it. Then once you have some specific questions or issues to deal with, then ask away (after you have done some research).

    Regards

    Bob
     
  18. vloose

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2008
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    0
    j99991,

    You seem like an appliance kind of guy to me but good luck with which ever you try.
     
  19. j99991

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2008
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    0
    ok so first of all i would like to thank you for your responses.

    bob i read your post. i do think i should give some more information about the machine options that we have here.

    but first i wll need to know the following this.
    the elastix system will have the 5-7 local extensions + 5-7 remote office extensions + another 3-5 remote office extension.
    so we have here 3 locations and approximately 25-35 extensions. we wou;ld also like to use elastix for mobile calls so this means another 3-4 extenstions.
    i will need to know first what syste components will i have to have in order be able to receive or initiate 25-30 concurrent calls in case i will use g729. will a pc with 2 gb 800 mhz ram memober, dual core 2.00ghz with 1 tb will be enough?
    i will also mention here that one of the reason that we are going for elastix is the call recordings. we will need to have a ssytem which will allow us to have a goodhigh quality call recordings. this need is very very very important to us and it is important that all call will be recorded at a high quality.

    our option are the following.
    1. appliance
    2. pc- a regular pc.
    3. dell studio hybrid.

    i will write here some pro and con for each.

    1. appliance- we prefer the appliance since it is small and doesn't take much room also we could locate it on a shelf.
    however the problem with an appliance is that buying 1 from a company is very expensive it's 2000$ for the system without phones plus 10% each year. that is why we prefer the pc in case a pc option will not make us any competability problems or any other problems.

    2. pc- we prefer the pc because it could cost less then an appliance. in case of a pc we could use the components i desecribed above but i will need to know that this kind of a pc could allow me to have all the needs mentioned above with no problems. however, the problems with a pc is that first it takes more palce then an appliance and second and the most important i'm afarid that using a pc could cause me problems. i'm afraid that a pc will get filled with dust or need to be opened for cleanings or repairs of the fans or any other component. we do not want to start opening the pc every half a year-1 year for cleaning and repairs and moreover if we will need to do that this means our lines will be shutted while cleaning or repairing it.
    that's is why we do prefer the appliance which is smaller and wont get any dust or stucked fans or any thing like that right?

    this brings me to the option 3.

    3. dell studio hybrid.
    first i will need to know if this sort of a pc with above mentioned components could be a machine that we could use in order to answer the above needs.
    we prefer the dell studio cause it's small like an appliance but is'nt expensive.
    moreover the dell studio is small and compressed which means it wont get any dust or stucked fans right?
    since we are not going to use fxo cards this option could be good.

    however i will need to know that this is a good option that we could answer our needs easpecially the concurrently amount of calls and the recordings.

    moreover, in case of a pc i would prefer an ssd drive which iunderstatd is not included with the dell studio. this is a bit of a problem for us.

    we are looking for a system which could answer the needs described and will not need to be opened for dust cleaning or fans cleaning or to any other repairs i wouldn't like to deal with that since this is a problem for us.

    bob, you mentioned cooling.
    cooling is an importatnt issue in case of a computer. do you the dell studio hybrid could be a good option consider it's cooliung options?
    what mentioned cooling can you tell more of what you ment?

    thanks
     
  20. j99991

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2008
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    0
    by mobiles i mean wirelessly connection.
     

Share This Page